# Aesara/pymc automatically making non-centered parameterization in pymc 4.0?

**URL:** <https://discourse.pymc.io/t/aesara-pymc-automatically-making-non-centered-parameterization-in-pymc-4-0/9573>\
**Category:** v5\
**Tags:** theano\
**Created:** [June 5, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://discourse.pymc.io/t/aesara-pymc-automatically-making-non-centered-parameterization-in-pymc-4-0/9573 "2022-06-05T23:16:55Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![wmbelk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecccb3/32.png) [@wmbelk](https://discourse.pymc.io/u/wmbelk)\
**Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://discourse.pymc.io/t/aesara-pymc-automatically-making-non-centered-parameterization-in-pymc-4-0/9573/1 "2022-06-05T23:16:55Z")

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Great job releasing pymc 4.0!

Anytime you use pm.Normal is it updated to non-centered?

If not, is there documentation on what parameterization is “automatically” updated to non-centered in 4.0?

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**Author:** ![ricardoV94](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/discourse.pymc.io/ricardov94/32/5775_2.png) [@ricardoV94](https://discourse.pymc.io/u/ricardoV94)\
**Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 6:11am UTC](https://discourse.pymc.io/t/aesara-pymc-automatically-making-non-centered-parameterization-in-pymc-4-0/9573/2 "2022-06-06T06:11:09Z")

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No alternative parametrizations are automatically introduced at the moment.

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**Author:** ![cluhmann](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/discourse.pymc.io/cluhmann/32/3083_2.png) [@cluhmann](https://discourse.pymc.io/u/cluhmann)\
**Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://discourse.pymc.io/t/aesara-pymc-automatically-making-non-centered-parameterization-in-pymc-4-0/9573/3 "2022-06-06T14:34:17Z")

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In addition, I will note that both centered and non-centered hierarchical models can suffer from sampling issues ([cite](https://betanalpha.github.io/assets/case_studies/hierarchical_modeling.html#3_The_Fundamental_Degeneracies_of_Normal_Hierarchical_Models)). So you should not assume that non-centered is universally superior.

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**Author:** ![wmbelk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecccb3/32.png) [@wmbelk](https://discourse.pymc.io/u/wmbelk)\
**Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 10:08am UTC](https://discourse.pymc.io/t/aesara-pymc-automatically-making-non-centered-parameterization-in-pymc-4-0/9573/4 "2022-06-07T10:08:32Z")

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Awesome citation! Thanks, I needed that!